“Can’t even get a review included with my $30?”
July 28th, 2010 by Lior ShamirI received this email yesterday:
Most contests are a scam. But the reason musicians come to this conclusion is because they pay some big fee to enter a “contest” and they never hear anything back except an email telling them they didn’t win. Kind of like what I got from your contest. Sure it had a chart that said I got 3 stars, but why? Can’t even get a review included with my $30? Oh well, live and learn.
July 28th, 2010 at 8:00 pm
So, what’s your response? It’s a pretty serious allegation and I’m surprised you put it out on the blog without any sort of commentary.
Lior Reply:
July 29th, 2010 at 3:32 pm
My general response is “to put it out there” so I can get your feedback and improve the service we’re ultimately building as a community. I would also agree with James’ comment further down this thread.
James Reply:
July 29th, 2010 at 5:54 pm
Thanks for the support Lior! Haha.
I commend you for “putting it out there”, honestly taking the feedback you receive to heart and actually making changes to improve your services. You’ve got seriously tough skin man! Cats are brutal out here! But I guess it goes with the territory when you provide honest feedback on peoples art & post peoples heart felt gripes.
I mentioned you guys in my blog and to my musician friends cause ya’ll are the real deal. Big ups!
Lior Reply:
July 30th, 2010 at 10:28 am
You’re a good man James.
July 29th, 2010 at 6:10 am
Kind of agree. I understand the fee to cover costs and prizes, but I would like a review too. Now, those reviews can be brutal, but I would rather learn than not.
Lior Reply:
July 29th, 2010 at 3:39 pm
I simply haven’t found a way to include a detailed review (from someone worthwhile) in your $30 entry. The Score Card is the middle ground… but I’m open to hearing suggestions, as always.
July 29th, 2010 at 6:14 am
I’ve said before, just let us know where we landed in the pile. Was I last, 33 out of 2,075 contestants, or 4 out of 300 contestants? Not that it matter much. All that matters is that I like what I did and if you don’t that’s fine, ya know?
Lior Reply:
July 29th, 2010 at 3:37 pm
If it doesn’t matter whether you’re 4th or 47th from 1000, should we really invest the time and resources into providing you with this data? If you REALLY care about this information, I’ll make it happen… but do you really care?
john Reply:
July 30th, 2010 at 7:01 am
it would be instructive to know where in the pile I landed so sure, “make it so.” I was only saying that as an artist, knowing how I rank in the pile, will not change what I do. It might only give me a sense of how you value what it is I am doing musically.
July 29th, 2010 at 6:23 am
Well,some of the things I said about song contest,was pretty brutal.I felt taken advantage of by a song pitcher ,who wanted like thirty dollars to pitch a single song per client.Im sure not all song pitchers are like that.As far as contest are concerned,personaly as a recording artist I have nothing to gain,But I do benefit from performing artist who sometimes use my materal in their work’
Thank you
Philip Asher
Lior Reply:
July 29th, 2010 at 3:40 pm
You shouldn’t be paying anything to have your songs pitched unless a deal is guaranteed.
July 29th, 2010 at 6:27 am
I think I’ve seen where for an ADDITIONAL fee you can get a “critique” of your work, which frankly from this particular group (if that’s whom you’re talking about) it (the critique) was actually immensely helpful. It was just a change in emphasis on my advertising, etc. but it made a huge difference. Meanwhile — I agree many contests are pretty scammy as a rule but I admit (blush) I’ve been gratified to get honorable mention in several, and every little bit helps when you’re trying not to just go drive off a cliff, trying to make a living at music. Congratulations on your 3 stars!! That really is (sincerely) an accomplishment and I think definitely means you were “heard.” Keep on rockin’, and don’t let it get you down. It gets easier.
Lior Reply:
July 29th, 2010 at 3:42 pm
Mandy – you are a gracious and valued member of this community
July 29th, 2010 at 7:36 am
I totally support what the guy said. I will never again enter a competition by we are listening or any other organization for that matter.
Even if detailed feedback was included it would still be an unnecessary waste of money.
If you really believe in yourself and you’re really good, and you work hard at making it known then you don’t need it.
July 29th, 2010 at 10:18 am
The chart was compiled due to musicians feeling that if they entered a song competition that they should get some type of information that would help them understand how they might improve their songs.
After a lot of suggestions from people who follow this blog the We Are Listening team put this chart together. It’s not nearly as detailed as what I got when I submitted my songs or what you would get for a full fledged review but it can help get the songwriter to work on areas that may be scoring a bit low. The lower amount of dots indicates a lower score and visa versa. May feel like a slap in the face if you score low but hey sometimes it’s just what we need to move us forward in life &/or art. I get it all the time but I am improving as an artist because of it…& developing tougher skin.
July 29th, 2010 at 12:28 pm
Yes, I think it would be decent if a proper review was included in the price of the contest; it shouldn’t be that much extra work, because you have to look at the songs in detail anyway! This would also make people more likely to enter, because then we know you have really studied our songs in depth. It may mean the turnover time is longer, (maybe less contest sessions per year) but it would be worth it.
Lior Reply:
July 29th, 2010 at 3:50 pm
This is a common misconception, Kate. Writing a review takes anywhere from ten to fifteen minutes extra, if done properly. This is why we charge for it separately. But I’m always open for new ways to address this issue. Any ideas?
Kate Reply:
July 29th, 2010 at 4:29 pm
Yeah, that makes sense, but I do have an idea: How about offering the review for a reduced price (like $15 instead of $20) when the song is also entered in the contest? Every little bit helps for those of us trying to live off our music! It would also be kind of a symbolic gesture to show you appreciate it when people trust your service and invest in your contests.
I thought your chart was OK, but after having the real critique I’m spoiled
unfortunately I can’t afford to get it for every song.
Lior Reply:
July 30th, 2010 at 10:34 am
The critique actually costs $30. Let me break it down for you:
We pay the reviewer $20
Transaction fees are approximately $3
I make $7
With this in mind, I could offer the service for $23 before I start losing money. Or I can find a reviewer who will do it for less than $20 a pop.
What would you do?
August 3rd, 2010 at 10:14 pm
OK, point made…
August 11th, 2010 at 4:49 am
Yo I’m 20yrs old I been rapping since I was five and writing since I was eleven yrs old I don’t need a label I just need somebody with a brain who is really ready to get money I don’t need a manager nor do I need an investor I just need someone with a lot of resources that are valuable…